Hypercast: An ADHD Podcast
Hypercast is your companion through the world of ADHD, offering an authentic and engaging look at life with ADHD. Join ADHD coaches Melissa and Brianna as they navigate the complexities of ADHD with heart, humor, and expert insights. From discussions on the latest research to personal stories of triumphs and struggles, Hypercast delves deep into every facet of ADHD.
Whether you're newly diagnosed, a long-time ADHDer, or someone who loves and supports an ADHDer, this podcast is for you. We explore a variety of topics, from ADHD relationships, late diagnosis, and co-occurring conditions to practical advice on everyday challenges.
Hypercast provides a supportive space for open, honest, and well-informed conversations about ADHD, including the cultural misconceptions and stigmas surrounding it. Melissa and Brianna share strategies, tools, and encouragement to help listeners thrive and navigate a world not built for their neurodivergent minds.
Tune in for insightful discussions, real-life experiences, and resources to help you along the ADHD journey, and know you're not alone. Hypercast is your auditory haven, bringing community and understanding to every episode.
Hypercast: An ADHD Podcast
Navigating ADHD in the Workplace
Ever felt like the daily grind is suffocating you, especially when societal pressures equate your worth with relentless productivity? Join us in this eye-opening episode of Hypercast, where we tackle the intricate realities of living and working with ADHD. We share personal experiences of struggling to keep up with traditional work schedules and the tough decisions some make to cope with these demands. You will gain insights into how societal norms that glorify overworking can wreak havoc on mental health, particularly for those dealing with ADHD.
Navigating the workplace with ADHD can feel like a daunting task, especially when your unique needs are met with resistance or misunderstanding. This episode highlights the critical issue of self-advocacy and the frustrating environments that fail to accommodate ADHD employees. Hear personal stories of individuals feeling like burdens when asking for help and the emotional toll of trying to fit into ill-suited roles. We emphasize the importance of understanding oneself and communicating specific needs, such as requesting a combination of verbal and written instructions, to improve work conditions without putting your job at risk.
Belonging to a supportive community can be a game-changer. We debunk the myth that ADHD limits job opportunities and discuss the immense value of seeking help from both employers and the ADHD community. With practical advice on building connections and leveraging social networks, this episode illustrates how overcoming workplace struggles can lead to growth and fulfillment. Embrace your neurodiversity and stay connected with Hypercast for more resources and encouragement on your journey. Don't forget to rate, subscribe, and check out our show notes for additional support and links to our social media!
Melissa's Contact:
Email: melissa@likemindcoaching.com
www.likemindcoaching.com
Brianna's Contact:
Email: info@understandingadhd.ca
www.understandingADHD.ca
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Hi, there you're listening to Hypercast, an ADHD podcast. I'm Melissa, an ADHD coach and advocate.
Brianna:Hi, I'm Brianna, an ADHD coach and soon-to-be therapist. We are here to explore all things ADHD from unexpected challenges to unique strengths.
Melissa:Join us as we share insights and strategies that empower you to live your best ADHD life.
Brianna:Ready? Let's dive into today's episode.
Melissa:Hi listeners, welcome back to Hypercast Brianna are you here with me? Are you there, Brianna?
Brianna:Are you still alive? I sometimes forget that this is not a visual format, that I have to speak with my mouth and say words. Hi, listeners, I am here.
Melissa:Today's topic is ADHD in the workplace. We spend one third of our lives at work and a lot of us struggle with the whole work thing.
Brianna:Yeah, we spend one third of our lives in the workplace. I don't want to spend one third of my life in the workplace. Work does not bring joy for me. It is something that I have to do in order to pay my bills and to eat and to do the things I want to do, like traveling and adventure, and to do the things I want to do, like traveling and adventure. And I think that work can be this all-encompassing thing that people want to find fulfillment in and purpose through, and if they're not working, then do they have value? But that's one society's perspective on work, because I do believe that you have value outside of productivity.
Melissa:There are cultural differences when it comes to the mentality of work, depending on where you live. We may be a small world or connected by this wonderful thing called the internet, but there are some big cultural divides when it comes to work and how we view it.
Brianna:Yeah, absolutely. I know the US has the American dream and this pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality of if I just worked a little bit harder, a little bit longer. And then there's also this weird cultural pride around. Oh, I was at the office until 10 pm last night and like I don't see my family ever, like I haven't been home for weeks now and I'm just dedicated to the grind and got to get that bread. And that's exhausting for a neurotypical and nearly impossible for someone who is disabled, and ADHD is a disability and it often comes with friends, as we've talked about. Chronic illness, fatigue, depression, anxiety and just that constant level of go-go is not healthy for anyone and it causes burnout.
Melissa:Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend of mine and they were struggling with their own personal view of success, because the way they were raised is that success means that you wake up at five o'clock every morning, you get four hours of sleep, that you get yourself to the office and you just grind and I'm like is that really your view of success? What about family? What about fun, fun, what about personal care?
Brianna:It's hard to really enjoy your life if your life is a 12-hour grind, seven days a week. Yeah, I was talking to someone about this as well, and they also had this perception that you have to get up in the morning and you have to start work and you have to be productive and you have to do this in a certain time period in a certain way, and that way is the neurotypical way right. That's what society views as success, that's what society views as productive, and productivity equals success in, at least in the States and Canada.
Melissa:I've lived the anxiety of having a job that will fire me if I don't make it on time. I've been fired from not making it to a job on time. The mortification and the self-doubt and the depression and anxiety that all just churns up can be unbearable. I feel like I'm being a Debbie Downer right now, but trying to combine having I don't want to say even like having a fulfilling work life, just being able to work in the world and then take care of ourselves and not be exhausted by the end of the day, it just sometimes just feels impossible.
Brianna:I don't think that it's possible for me to exist in the world and work that kind of nine to five or longer because it's never nine to five, is it and not be exhausted and to take care of my home and whatnot. I have made life choices as a result of knowing that that's just not possible for me. I have chosen to go into a business where I can control my own hours. I have chosen not to have children so I don't have to add child care into my life, because I know that work is going to exhaust me to the point where I could either be a mom or have a career, and because we know that like mom is a full-time job, taking care of a home is a full-time job and I am not built to have multiple full-time jobs.
Melissa:Are any of us built to have multiple full-time jobs?
Brianna:No, literally no. Let's talk about your experience when you were working in a place and you did have that fear, because I'd like to touch on that a little bit more. Tell me more.
Melissa:I got my first job when I was 13 years old. I feel like I've done all of the jobs. I've been a dog walker, I've worked in medical offices. I've done so many things. The cool thing is I've learned a lot of skills.
Brianna:It's like having a lot of hobbies but getting paid for it, and a lot of those things have led me to other career opportunities and options is the standard these days, and it's actually interesting that you have all that experience and can talk about the different jobs that you've had and the different experiences that you've had.
Melissa:It makes me interesting at interviews. I'm not going to lie. I've gotten a couple of jobs because I was an interesting person to interview People with ADHD. Sometimes we get overlooked because our communication skills are a little bit different. We have a hard time making eye contact because our communication skills are a little bit different. We have a hard time making eye contact If we make small mistakes. If we make enough of them, they're seen as negative in the workplace. That prevents us from being promoted, from making more money, diminishes our value in the eyes of our peers and also our bosses.
Brianna:With neurodivergent people, our need to understand the rules, to ask why. It's not that our communication is flawed or broken, it's that we have different requirements and when those requirements aren't met, we get confused. We're not able to complete the task if we don't know why, if there aren't clear instructions, if there's not a support system there, and then we're punished because we should have been able to figure it out, or like it doesn't make sense why we're being punished for this thing, the same, with the whole being late thing. There are jobs where, like the shift work typically, where the workers are not respected, where there are these severe level of punishments. But then there's also jobs where people can rock up, like anywhere around nine or whatever they choose to, and again there's that disparity in class there, because those tend to be the like high paying office jobs where there's more freedom given businesses where there's not an HR department involved, you don't have someone besides the boss to turn to.
Melissa:I'm currently living in the United States, so that's definitely the experience that I've had and I've never felt ever have I felt comfortable disclosing my diagnosis to any of my employers. Yeah, that's totally For fear of being discriminated against or because of the stigma against ADHD.
Brianna:Yeah, absolutely, and it's again that, like where I have felt safer to disclose, have been in situations where, like I knew, someone else was neurodivergent and working there, or like it was in a situation where the accommodations were already in place so they wouldn't have to adapt or change anything for me to fit in. It's just a oh another person who would need these things that have already been built in, universally available, rather than a place where it would now become a bad thing for me to have this. It would take me twice as long to do this, or I might be late sometimes, or I need a chair to do this, and those things would have to then be provided extra. It always feels just that little bit like a hostile environment that you're having to be the advocate to change, rather than it's already a good environment and you're just taking advantage of what's already there.
Melissa:And it's really hard to be an advocate for yourself if the environment doesn't embrace your needs. Yeah, exactly that. But it's also hard to be an advocate for yourself if the environment doesn't embrace your needs.
Brianna:Yeah, exactly that. But it's also hard to be an advocate for yourself if you really need this job, if you struggled and this is like your 18th interview and you can't do that anymore and you just need something. So it becomes this like back and forth game of will. I won't I, because I need the accommodations, but also I need this job and just like the Americans with Disability Act or in Canada, it's built into our charter rights and freedoms, this disability protection.
Brianna:The UK has disability rights and things like that. So there are laws protecting you as a disabled person from discrimination, and yet they don't seem to work. There doesn't seem to be any kind of actual protection when it comes down to it, because they can fire you for something else. It's not because you're disabled, it's because you were late. Oh, it's not because you are disabled, it's because you weren't able to complete this task in the way that I wanted it done. Oh, it's not because you are disabled, it's because you weren't able to complete this task in the way that I wanted it done. Oh, it's not because you're disabled, it's because of but all of those things are because I'm disabled. Yes, exactly.
Melissa:And it makes it really hard to even know how to advocate for yourself. Personally, like I haven't had a lot of great examples of how to do that, especially in my youth, trying to ask for what I needed was really hard. In fact it made me feel like a burden. And then I would just double down and say to myself, like you're saying, I need this job, so I would force myself to try to bend to the needs of that job, and then I was miserable.
Brianna:So all you people pleasers out there, anyone who has rejection sensitivity, yep, all yep. Welcome adhd people to trying to shove yourself into a box and torture yourself. Rather than asking if there can be a bigger box or something different for you because we don't feel like we deserve it, it would be a burden. Like it's just, it should exist. This is where my mentality is from Like there should.
Melissa:Why do I need to earn accommodation? To help me be the best employee I can be.
Brianna:Yeah, why do I have to apologize and change who I am rather than you accepting who I am and the benefits that I can bring? Adhd comes with a lot. Yeah, it does Things that can benefit business creativity, problem solving, hyper focus. We're really great in tech, for example. If you allow us to do it our way, we are going to provide value for your company. If you force us to do it your way, we are not going to provide that same value.
Brianna:One of my friends was telling me this story about how she just had this really great job blah, blah, blah and then her boss was promoted and they got a new boss.
Brianna:Her new boss came in and said oh, I see you're behind on this really boring data entry job and you're really ahead on all these really interesting jobs.
Brianna:You are no longer allowed to do any of these interesting jobs that you're really good at until you meet your quota for this boring data entry repetitive task. And it destroyed her, because this was the reason that she was so good at her job, that she was enjoying it, that people really valued in her, and this was a thing that she was doing, but slowly, not neglecting it. It was just happening more slowly because it was so boring. And as soon as she took away all of the novelty, all of the interest, all of the challenge, this became slower. She did not get as much work done. She dreaded going in, had mental health symptoms and things like that, and it's from one boss who didn't understand that this was the reason. The stuff that she was good at was the reason that she was able to do the data entry piece and they took away her accommodations and gave her something and it didn't work out.
Melissa:That makes me so sad. So, real quick. I don't know if you could help me answer this question, but how can we? As people with ADHD, like I mentioned, in my youth I really struggled with even knowing how to stand up for myself, how to ask for accommodation. But how can I be my own hero at work?
Brianna:What can I ask without stepping on toes, I think it's a really complicated answer because there isn't a blanket answer to this, because there are situations where it would actually be unsafe for you to disclose. There might be a culture of discrimination or something that gets overlooked, brushed under the rug, that might get you fired. So what can we do? Great question. I think that the best way that I have found to help yourself is to know yourself, and let me explain what that means. So if you know specifically what you need and write that down and maybe explain why that helps you. So, for example, like a standing desk, maybe with a treadmill or something like that, and you know that, oh, like I do better when I'm active and my brain can focus, and things like that, and write that down. But those are the physical things that jobs are like. Yep, that's our disability combination. That's what we have to do. We have to give you a standing desk and a bouncy ball and five minute breaks every hour or something like that.
Brianna:What they don't understand is the communication piece or the pieces that are like, not as tactile, and that's where you really have to know yourself. So if you're like hey, I need verbal instructions but also written instructions, I need the written instructions explained to me verbally, then ask for that, because they're more likely to say, oh yeah, you need these written instructions verbally, absolutely no problem. Versus you saying, hey, I'm disabled, I need you to change the way you give me instructions. Then they'll either not do that, because it's too much work to figure out what you need, or do it in a way that isn't helpful for you. So you really have to know yourself first and ask specifically for what it is that you need.
Brianna:That way you can ask for it without maybe disclosing that you have a disability and play both sides of the field and, yeah, it's extra work for you. That's the thing. Right, it should be on them to provide the accommodations, but it's on you to figure out what you specifically need and then ask for it. And it's really scary to ask and it's really hard to know what you need, because how do you out what you specifically need and then ask for it? And it's really scary to ask and it's really hard to know what you need, because how do you know what you need until you need it Maybe?
Melissa:part of it is sitting down and doing some self-exploration. Can you remember a time when you feel like you communicated really well with somebody else? What form did that communication come in? Was it a text message, was it an email, or was it something that they gave you verbally? That may be a place to start from when it comes to that communication piece.
Brianna:There's another one of my friends, only woman I don't know about neurodivergent, but only woman in a workplace and there was this culture that they had to go out to lunch all the time and my friend just wanted to get some work done when it was quiet, away from like all of the hubble-booloo and whatnot.
Brianna:But because she chose not to go out to lunch one time she was passed over for a promotion that she had almost effectively been promised and it was given to one of the guys who went out to the lunch and this whole like like social expectation thing, like not understanding that was required because it was offered as a hey, would you like to come out for lunch, rather than a hey, this is a very important part of being the team that you come out to these lunches. And it was never explained and she got passed over and yeah, so it's awful and no one explains. Passed over, and yeah, so it's awful and no one explains. And then the intersectional thing of her being the only woman, and can you imagine how exhausting it would be to like work all day and then also have to be social at lunch and not have a break from that expectation?
Melissa:Yeah, it's hard because we need flex time, we need a chance to just shake things off, otherwise we could reach a boiling point, especially during times of overwhelm.
Brianna:Yeah, and that's why a lot of ADHDers are starting to move towards this work-from-home culture which, since the global pandemic, is now an option. It's become a really good option for ADHD people and a lot of the people that I've seen with ADHD are really looking for these work-from-home jobs. It's like a data analyst or copy editor or anything that they don't have to go into an office for, because it allows you to not be on your feet all the time.
Brianna:It allows you that flex time. You don't have to put that mask on because you don't have to do that social thing. But then, on the flip side, having to go into the office creates a structure and a routine. Having that social thing is like body doubling. That keeps you on task, that keeps you prioritizing the things.
Melissa:It's good and it's bad, and skill level is important here too, because data analyst that's a job that requires at least a bachelor's degree. What if you don't have a bachelor's degree? What if you only have a high school degree or an associate's degree? If working from home is something that works better for you and that kind of structure works better for you, do you have anything off the top of your head that you can think of that are good fields to go into?
Brianna:Okay about this. There are numerous articles all over the internet that say, oh, jobs that are good for people with ADHD, jobs that are bad for people with ADHD, and I reject that narrative. I reject that narrative because I don't believe that our disability prevents us from doing anything in the world that we want to do. There are certain things that will make certain jobs more difficult, more draining for us, but I don't think that's the job itself. I think that's the lack of accommodation surrounding that job. My biggest thing this whole ADHD and work is some of the things you are responsible for, but there are also things that your employer or the world around you is responsible for, so you don't have to do everything yourself. You are allowed to ask for help, and practicing asking for help is going to make you better at it.
Melissa:Yeah, we recently did a podcast episode on ADHD and community, so another thing to do is to really reach out to the ADHD community for support, because you may feel really lonely in how you feel at work, but you are definitely not the only one. Connecting with groups online, with groups that are regional that are close to you I know that Chad has support groups, peer support groups.
Brianna:Those kinds of things can be very helpful and sometimes may even help you make connections to find a job that's more fulfilling for you and unfortunately, as I'm finding out, a lot of finding jobs that work is who you know rather than what you know, which is really difficult for people with ADHD to come to terms with, because we're so focused on what we know rather than the social connections. So reaching out to those communities, asking around, seeing what jobs work and what jobs other people with ADHD have, and then maybe asking for a connection, is so helpful, and not just the ADHD community, but your whole community.
Melissa:I think I don't know about you, brianna, but sometimes I struggle reaching out for help from others. I have this thing in my head that says I should be able to do it myself, and most people in this world don't get by like that. They get by with a little help from their friends and their families. If you are seeking employment or just something different, take a few minutes or just something different. Take a few minutes. Consider what you really want or the direction you're heading, and reach out to your friends, reach out to your family members. They love you, they want you to succeed. So that may be a step to go to get you into a place that's. Maybe it's not your final step, but it's a step in a direction that may be better than where you are right now.
Brianna:Yeah, it took me years to learn this skill and it has served me so well, like asking for what I need. I started in grade three, grade four, something like that, really practicing that skill and being able to reach out. It's really awkward as well, reaching out, just cold calling people and be like, hey, you don't know me, but someone told me to contact you, do you have any? And it turns out that people want to help. Yeah, I've never had one person be like, ew, why are you contacting me? It's always been like, oh, I don't have anything for you, but this person might. Or oh, I do have something for you and I would love to chat about whatever. And so many people who are like friends of friends or whatever, have just been so generous with their time. And it's not always obvious. That is the case because we live in a world where we feel othered and we feel the discrimination, we feel the stigma. So realizing that people want to help isn't really intuitive.
Melissa:Yeah, we can't survive as an island.
Brianna:No, people are not designed to be alone.
Melissa:It also took me years to learn that I love that you say you've been working on this since you were like fourth grade. I'm like I've been working on it since I was like 38. This is not. It's not a science. We are going to reach these realizations at different times in our lives, and guess what? That's okay. But wherever you are right now, that's okay too. So today's your starting point. I have to remind myself of that every single day, that today is today, tomorrow is tomorrow and live right now, in today that I'm still working on.
Brianna:See, we all have our things Lifelong work, listening to this podcast, a job but hopefully some of this information has helped and, even if it's just commiserating with the fact that it sucks, even if it's that that has helped make it feel a little bit more normal, like you're not suffering alone. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah, we are not suffering alone. Oh, that sounds really depressing. We're suffering together.
Brianna:We're suffering together. Now it suffering together. Yay, now it sounds positive.
Melissa:Well, actually, I think sometimes, when we're together, instead of being suffering, it becomes community, it becomes a place to start from and to be able to process through these things.
Brianna:There are studies that say that complaining actually is how one of the fastest ways to form friendships and, like gossiping, can form bonds between people. Having a place to complain and say that the world is and getting a job is hard and it's helpful. It helps you form community well this community will stand upon.
Melissa:The world is. Getting jobs that we love is hard but not impossible. That's the positive.
Brianna:You can do anything that you put your mind to. And I know that sounds like some Thomas the tank engine but realistically it'll be hard but it's not impossible.
Melissa:I want to add to that knowing is half the battle, gi Joe. All right, thank you for joining us. Bye, and knowing is half the battle, gi Joe. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Hypercast.
Brianna:If you've enjoyed today's episode and want to stay connected, be sure to rate and subscribe, and check out the show notes for links to our social media and websites.
Melissa:Whether you're seeking practical tips, heartfelt stories or just a sense of community, hypercast is here for you.
Brianna:Remember you're not alone in your ADHD journey. Together, we can navigate the highs and lows with courage and compassion.
Melissa:So until next time, take care, stay curious and keep embracing your unique neurodiversity. Catch you on the next episode of Hypercast.
