Hypercast: An ADHD Podcast
Hypercast is your companion through the world of ADHD, offering an authentic and engaging look at life with ADHD. Join ADHD coaches Melissa and Brianna as they navigate the complexities of ADHD with heart, humor, and expert insights. From discussions on the latest research to personal stories of triumphs and struggles, Hypercast delves deep into every facet of ADHD.
Whether you're newly diagnosed, a long-time ADHDer, or someone who loves and supports an ADHDer, this podcast is for you. We explore a variety of topics, from ADHD relationships, late diagnosis, and co-occurring conditions to practical advice on everyday challenges.
Hypercast provides a supportive space for open, honest, and well-informed conversations about ADHD, including the cultural misconceptions and stigmas surrounding it. Melissa and Brianna share strategies, tools, and encouragement to help listeners thrive and navigate a world not built for their neurodivergent minds.
Tune in for insightful discussions, real-life experiences, and resources to help you along the ADHD journey, and know you're not alone. Hypercast is your auditory haven, bringing community and understanding to every episode.
Hypercast: An ADHD Podcast
Unmasking the Hidden ADHD Tax
How much does ADHD really cost? Join us on Hypercast as we uncover the hidden "ADHD tax" and its far-reaching impacts on both finances and emotions. In this eye-opening episode, we promise to shed light on the often underestimated financial burden faced by those with ADHD, from late fees and unnecessary purchases to increased healthcare costs. Our conversation delves into the everyday challenges, such as meal planning and healthy eating, that can be particularly taxing for individuals with ADHD. By sharing personal stories and expert insights, we aim to normalize these struggles and offer practical strategies to help you manage and reduce the ADHD tax in your life.
Melissa's Contact:
Email: melissa@likemindcoaching.com
www.likemindcoaching.com
Brianna's Contact:
Email: info@understandingadhd.ca
www.understandingADHD.ca
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Hi, there you're listening to Hypercast, an ADHD podcast. I'm Melissa, an ADHD coach and advocate.
Brianna:Hi, I'm Brianna, an ADHD coach and soon-to-be therapist. We are here to explore all things ADHD from unexpected challenges to unique strengths.
Melissa:Join us as we share insights and strategies that empower you to live your best ADHD life.
Brianna:Ready? Let's dive into today's episode.
Melissa:Welcome to Hypercast. Welcome to Hypercast. We're so happy to be here today.
Brianna:So today we are talking about the ADHD tax, melissa, what is the ADHD tax?
Melissa:The ADHD tax is basically all of those extra costs and hassles people with ADHD deal with because of things like forgetting stuff, acting on impulse or being disorganized. Think about late fees on bills you forgot to pay, having to buy new things because you lost the old ones, or spending money on stuff you didn't really need. It's not just about money. It's also about time and stress spent managing all of this.
Brianna:Nice. So why do we care? Why are we talking about this today?
Melissa:I think it's really important to understand what it is, that it exists, because sometimes understanding it, acknowledging it and identifying and sometimes even saying it out loud helps us start the journey to manage these things in our lives and maybe I don't want to say get them under control, because every time I say I've got something under control it's never fully under control but maybe to mitigate the ADHD taxes that we pay in life. I think that's why it's important.
Brianna:The reason that I think that we should care about the ADHD tax is to normalize it and realize that there isn't all of this like shame and guilt surrounding it, because it's like a part of life and being disabled costs money.
Brianna:Yeah, it costs a lot money in a lot of ways, like in terms of, just like your medication more expensive, all those comorbid conditions. That's going to cost more money. More expensive, all those comorbid conditions that's going to cost more money, like health care fees are going to go up. And then, if you're not able to work a full time job or you, then all the tax stuff that we're talking about in terms of symptom related things, like I forgot to pay my bill on time and now there's an over fee. Or I didn't pay my credit card bill, now there's an overdraft. And like, basically, the return box of a library you've returned your library books late and now there's not just financial costs to that, but there's this huge shame and guilt piece of I'm an adult, I should have been able to manage this, and now there's a financial consequence and it hurt A lot of times.
Melissa:When we're talking about the ADHD tax, it's the financial aspect that is immediately thought of Things we need to pay out of pocket, because you're saying that late fees or mistakes or things we've done impulsively that create a new expense for us.
Brianna:So prescriptions- are the devil. I as in personally with ADHD anyone that makes me put in my credit card information for a free trial or whatever. I'm not doing it because I'm never going to remember to cancel that subscription and you're going to be able to charge me extra and I'm not even going to notice and that's just money down the drain. Or like little micro payments for like video games, where you're like impulsively buy something and it's just like, oh, it's only 99 cents, but then thousand dollars later and you're like how that was only 99 cents.
Melissa:One thousand times, yeah, oh my. I know you have mentioned to me before about other adhd taxes. There's the things that we create and there's the things that naturally exist because we have ADHD and the cost of living with ADHD.
Brianna:Yeah, exactly. So, just like general health care costs are higher because ADHD is a physical difference in our brains and we have to go seek health care. To go seek health care, there's a study that found that the average annual cost for an adult with ADHD was between $5,000 to $6,000 a year US dollars, whereas for the average adult without ADHD it was $1,000 to $2,000. That's not just double, that's triple, that is triple and that's just a base rate of health care. I'm not even talking about the cost of stimulants and prescriptions and whatever. It's just like all those comorbid health conditions that come along with it the anxiety, the depression, but also things like eating disorders or like physical, like chronic pain conditions IBS is very common, so there's just a lot of like physical things that we need to go see a doctor about. And then also taking care of yourself is more difficult when you have ADHD. You might not be getting enough exercise. There might just be like lifestyle things as a result of your ADHD that is making your health worse.
Melissa:That's a time thing, because I personally feel like it takes more time for me to remain a balanced human being than it takes a neurotypical to maintain that, and that's like time and opportunity cost in itself.
Brianna:Yeah, absolutely. We'll talk about this food tax in both ways. One, you go to the store, you want to buy healthy groceries and you want to cook it whatever. Like planning out a meal takes extra time because of executive functioning. Cooking it with the step-by-step instructions is very difficult to follow, so I will go back to the recipe two or three times more than my neurotypical partner, and so now he's in charge of the instructions because I will read it, go to do the thing and immediately forget what it was. I have to go back and read it, and that happens like two or three times, and so cooking itself takes longer.
Brianna:Healthy eating is harder. But then, on the flip side of the other aspect of that ADHD tax, I will buy vegetables because I want vegetables and then I'll forget about them and they go rotten in the fridge, right? So now that's money flushed down the drain because vegetables are expensive and you have to keep rebuying them because they're not shelf-stable, right? So it's cheaper and easier to buy shelf-stable foods that are high in salt and high in sugar and low in fiber and protein.
Melissa:I'm a vegan. I've been a vegetarian since I was nine. Low in fiber and protein. I'm a vegan. I've been a vegetarian since I was nine and I 100% get this. One of the things I do to help mitigate that is. It's not my favorite thing to do because they don't taste as good, but getting like organic frozen vegetables because they're not shelf stable but they definitely last longer and don't sit there decaying in my refrigerator. So when everything in my fridge has decided to decay on me and I need to toss it out, I head to my freezer and at least have a backup of things to cook with. May not be my favorite, but it is an option.
Brianna:Yeah, there are ways, but it's still expensive. And then there's that shame and guilt piece of I've spent all this money on vegetables and I've had to throw them out, and that in itself is another time consuming task that has some sensory issues involved in it, because it smells bad, now it's sticky and slimy. Now you have to clean out your whole fridge and a neurotypical person wouldn't have forgotten the vegetables and they wouldn't have had to take the time to clean out the fridge and like it's just so much time in our day is dedicated to like making up for the slight mistakes or like inconveniences that come with.
Melissa:ADHD and I've tried to do a cost analysis that makes me very depressed to start with of like how much food I've purchased. Am I buying too much? Am I not planning well enough before I go to the grocery store? And I've started turning to grocery delivery because it prevents me from making impulse purchases while I'm at the grocery store and helps me with the planning, because half the time I walk out with things that are impulse buys and then I forget, like the other half of the things I was supposed to purchase.
Brianna:Yeah, yeah, so ADHD tax there as well, in terms of the impulsive purchases. But oh, I forgot something. Now you have to go back to the store. The price of gas to do that two trips to the grocery store is also part of that ADHD tax. It's little hidden fees everywhere that happen as a result of the symptoms.
Brianna:When I compared grocery delivery and just going to the grocery store myself and even with the hearty tip it was still less expensive to get groceries delivered I was amazed by that I'm like a farmer's market girly, so I love going to the farmer's market with like fresh fruits and vegetables and whatnot, and unfortunately there's like a markup for locally sustainably sourced, organic type of stuff. Because I care about the environment. There's already a marked up cost. If you care about the environment and then if you forget about those vegetables, it makes it an even harder pill to swallow.
Melissa:Absolutely. We were talking about impulse purchases. You probably have some science background in this. When it comes to like why we make impulse purchases you want the answer yeah, I would love the answer, because why do we make impulse purchases?
Brianna:The answer is dopamine. Yeah, the answer is always dopamine. But realistically, people with ADHD often have gambling addictions or shopping addictions or whatever. Because the purchasing something like a little tiny gift for you feels good. It's a hit of dopamine. Going and doing a little bit of online shopping which turns into a lot of online shopping or, like I mentioned, gambling, it feels good, it's nice to have a package. It's a surprise from me to me. So not only do you get the hit of dopamine when you buy the thing, you get it again when you receive the thing. It's a reinforcing pattern, right? So you're going to want to get more dopamine by buying the thing.
Melissa:And, of course, that gift from me to me once. That happens over and over again, or that 99 cents 1,000 times. Once you get that credit card bill or you look at your bank statement and you have nothing left in your account, that's when it hits really hard because, guess what, you still have a mortgage or rent to pay, you still have a car payment to pay, you still need money for food to eat.
Brianna:Absolutely. And that ties back into time blindness, actually, which is not the first thing you'd think of. But because of time blindness we can't see the long-term goals in terms of saving up for a mortgage or saving up to purchase something bigger Say you want like a computer or like a jetpack I don't know what you want to buy but something that's not 99 cents. It's difficult for us to save up for that thing because we like instant gratification and that longer term goal that would bring us more joy overall and more quality of life overall is harder to save up for because we can't really see or feel what the future is going to look like, because it's now or never, Like our brains are now or never.
Melissa:These things snowball. So what happens? When you've diminished your bank account, you have late fees from your bank and then you can't pay that credit card bill. Then you have the late fees there. These things snowball into much bigger problems that become things like a lowering of your credit score, which can affect you from getting a house loan, getting a job that you really want, because a lot of jobs use your credit score as a way to see if you're a worthy candidate for your job.
Brianna:Yeah, People with ADHD are historically undereducated, underemployed as a result of discrimination, but also are symptoms not being managed and not being accommodated. And then things like this, where it's just like a buildup of all these little problems that eventually cause us to be unemployable or unattractive to employers.
Melissa:Not that we're unemployable have a lot of value but we're just never given the chance, Exactly Because you look at us on paper and you see something like that credit score that will immediately disqualify us. This is making me think about the whole snowballing effect how one thing becomes another thing becomes a bigger problem. Okay, I'm going to share the story. I've only shared the story with one person, which is my spouse. So, hey world, you get to hear the story straight from me.
Brianna:I feel very honored, and I'm sure all of the listeners do as well.
Melissa:So in my early 20s I don't know if the story I'm about to tell, I don't know if this is how all like laws and jurisdictions work, but this is how things work in the state where I reside in the United States Every single year we are required to get a safety inspection done on our vehicle and we have a little sticker in our window that indicates the date in the year that everything expires. I was in my early 20s, I think I was like 21, 22. And I was late on getting that done. And then, because I was late, I was pulled over by a police officer, given a ticket and said please pay this ticket and get your inspection done. I waited three more weeks to get my inspection done. I then forgot to pay that ticket. I eventually did pay it, but the payment was definitely late.
Melissa:I also moved in this time period. So when I moved, no-transcript and I get pulled over by a police officer because my taillight was out and he checked my driver's license and said ma'am, you need to get out of the car right now. You are not licensed to drive this vehicle and I was like panicked I'm sobbing and he explains why I had been pulled out of the car and said you don't have a license. I'm like I do have a license.
Melissa:You have my license in your hand. He's like no, it was revoked because you didn't pay this bill. I was like I did pay that bill, I had the receipt in my wallet. And he just like sighs. He's like you have the receipt in your wallet. I'm like yeah, I do.
Melissa:I was so grateful for this large hunking man. He called this tow truck driver, which I had to pay a fee for, to come tow my vehicle to the tow truck place. The owner's lovely wife, who's probably like 70 years old, put me in the passenger seat of her car, took me to the DMV and waited with me, patted my hand, said it will be okayed here, with her lovely Southern charm and I paid like probably $400 to get my license back and reinstated that day and that took about six hours, like the whole transaction. Meanwhile I'm in the middle of nowhere and then I had to return back to the middle of nowhere a couple months later to go before a judge and explain I had this receipt in my wallet. This is why I got pulled over by the cop and my case was dismissed, but I could have gotten arrested for being late on not doing my car inspection. That is how things snowball.
Brianna:That is an excellent example. I'm so sorry that happened to you, but yeah, absolutely In terms of I was going to say that seems like a very common experience of being late to not remembering to register and being late, but that it got out of hand, you could have gone to jail Exactly.
Melissa:I could have gone to jail. The fact that this happened this happened over 20 years ago and I'm only sharing this now means to me that I was so embarrassed. Looking at it now I'm like I was a kid. It happened, but the shame that I've carried with me because of this. I realize that's also a tax. That's the kind of tax that can prevent us from pursuing certain goals that make us feel horrible about ourselves, that can help our little comorbidity buddies, like depression and anxiety, creep up.
Brianna:Yeah, yeah, absolutely the shame. And then, on top of that, the stigma. You were probably not saying this is true, but there might have been some judgment from the people or the cops, or if you had a partner at the time, in terms of why didn't you just register it on time, Like why didn't you just do it on time? And that kind of thing which would lower your self-esteem and cause emotional problems. And then, over time, that all just builds up and then you might become anxious about it or hypervigilant, or just live in this constant state of fight or flight in terms of I never want anything bad to happen, so I have to be always on top of this, always thinking about it and just stressing yourself out and causing ulcers, which would then have to make you go to the doctor and increase the price of that again. Yes, see more tax. But yeah, I have an issue you've shared. I'll share. That's how it works with ADHD.
Brianna:I have an issue with purchasing things. I am so afraid of spending money as a result of not wanting to end up in a situation like this that I have cried when I had to buy a $40 bottle of conditioner. My hair is dyed pink. It dyes my hair pink. It's a special novelty thing, but the pink hair makes me really happy and I really enjoy it. And I looked at all the options and I spent hours researching this and then I still couldn't make a decision about trying to spend this money, because it was a frivolity, it wasn't a necessity, it wasn't rent or food or internet, which is a necessity, it was just this cosmetic thing and I cried and I just I have so much anxiety around spending money because I know that it could get out of hand or I could end up in a situation where I couldn't afford to live or to eat. So, like I've done the all or nothing thing, I've swung way too far the other way and I don't spend money on joy and I'm working really hard to gain that skill back.
Melissa:That makes me think about balance. So, in this situation, how are you balancing that? How do you open yourself up to considering ways of spending money on joy but not overindulging? I don't know if you've got any pro tips. I'm working on it. I think things like budgets can be so hard for us. I've heard of people with ADHD also creating I've done some of this. But creating specific bank accounts Like this is your bank account for doing all the other things that aren't required in the month, so you can deplete it all you want, but it still protects the money that's set aside for actually living your daily life.
Brianna:Yeah, that's the strategy that I've employed and am working on. I have the financial side of it sorted. I have a fun account. I have percentages of my income and whatever. This is for savings, this is for my retirement, this is for emergencies, this is for living and this little tiny portion is for fun. But I'm still having issues, like I like to see the numbers go up Right, so I like that it's getting bigger and it's just turned into another savings account.
Brianna:My partner is actually really good at spending money on things that he enjoys, but without going overboard. So I've been trying to lean on him and learn his ways a little bit in terms of balance and whatnot. But speaking of relationships segue, the ADHD task can have a huge impact on relationships, because if you have a partner and you're living together and your finances are combined or not or whatever like you being late to pay the bills, if you like disorganization is a problem. So if you misplace the bills or you they were delivered and you put them somewhere and you can't find them and then you didn't pay them on time, not only is that impacting you, it's impacting your partner and it's impacting your relationship.
Melissa:This is where, at least with my spouse, I have found communication is incredibly important, incredibly important. Systems are also incredibly important.
Brianna:It's creating a system that both people will stick to and use, because otherwise, yeah, yeah, otherwise, it's not going to work very well for either of you yeah, and the thing is you can't just maybe an adhd pro strategy, whatever would be to oh, just make the neurotypical in the relationship do it, but that's giving over a lot of power to a person to be in control of your finances. That requires a lot of trust and, as women, financial abuse is abuse, and if you're in a relationship where you have no control over your own finances, that could be quite dangerous. It's not a viable solution. You have to figure out a way that works for you without ruining your relationship, without overburdening them or causing strain, because financial strain is probably the leading cause of divorce. Absolutely, there has to be a balance again in terms of managing your own stress when it comes to it, but also being knowledgeable about what's happening and being in control of your own life.
Melissa:Do you have any suggestions for how to deal with the emotional component of the ADHD tax?
Brianna:Well, my number one strategy is understanding. So what we talked about at the top of the show, which is, if you understand where this is coming from, you're more likely to be able to notice it before it becomes a big problem. You're more likely to be able to put systems in place, because you're like, hey, I know I'm going to need extra support around this and you can't just live your life la-di-da. You have to actually take control and recognize that it's going to be harder for you, have systems in place to make it easier and just giving yourself that permission to not feel like you're broken or feel like you should be doing more, and instead being like OK, I know this is going to be harder for me, what systems can I put in place to make this easier?
Melissa:I think another thing that's really important is to recognize where you currently are and look at it. I've been through a couple of times in my life where, like finances were like at a bad, weird place and the only way that I successfully have dealt with it is to actually look at it and say, ok, this is where I am, and sometimes, through exploration of options, you can find a better way of dealing with your current financial situation. You can find a better way of dealing with your current financial situation.
Brianna:I really wanted to comment on that, because they're like with that low self-esteem, low self-confidence and just telling yourself, oh, I'm bad at finances, I shouldn't even try. And that rejection sensitivity piece of oh I'm so bad at this, I'm never going to be any good at this, I shouldn't even try, because if I try, then it'll hurt more is so important to overcome when it comes to finances, because you need to be in control of that or it's going to spiral out of control. But my point is that fear, that paralysis around, even looking at how bad your finances have gotten out of control, is just going to make it worse. You need to keep on top of it, which is hard for someone with ADHD to habitually keep on top of something.
Melissa:For everyone, for every person on this planet. There are many emotions mixed in with the topic of money, but for people with ADHD, those emotions are even greater.
Brianna:And there's cultural differences here as well. I know there are certain cultures that just don't talk about money. They don't talk about it with their kids and it's all this big secret. And then they die and you inherit something and you weren't prepared for it and they don't teach their kids how to budget. So there's no of how to do this. Well right, it's, unless you're a finance bro. Like, are you learning?
Melissa:these skills. They don't teach it in school that often, unless you're specifically taking a class in college about it. There's a pro tip for you.
Brianna:Take a class, take a finance class, get educated about it. There's a pro tip for you Take a class, take a finance class, get educated about it, be better informed, be better able to make decisions. Yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Let's recap what we've talked about today. So we talked about the ADHD tax, that just health care costs alone are three times higher than a neurotypical.
Brianna:We talked about the ADHD tax in terms of the symptoms that result in extra financial costs hidden little, secret things, disorganization, impulsivity, poor memory, like not being able to remember that you've subscribed to something, and just like how it snowballs all those like hidden fees and costs that snowball and add up. Then we talked about the emotional cost of this building up the shame, the low self-esteem, the low self-confidence, telling yourself oh, I'm just bad at finances, I'll never get good at this, I'll always just be poor or living paycheck to paycheck because I can't manage my finances or my impulse buys or whatever, and how much that can impact you as a person, and then also how it impacts relationships. The last thing we talked about was strategies that we can use to help. So getting educated, getting informed, that's number one. Number two is understanding ADHD and understanding that this tax exists, and just acknowledging its existence will allow you to set up strategies and avoid some of the be afraid to look at it.
Melissa:I think, next to understanding and educating yourself, it's grabbing onto that bravery and courage and looking at it and saying, okay, we can do this, and diving in.
Brianna:Absolutely yeah. I think the overall message that we want to send home to our listeners is it's scary, but you can do it.
Melissa:So reflect on your experiences with ADHD tax. Try something new. Try a new strategy, explore, be curious. If you want to send us some of your pro tips and strategies, we'd love to hear them. You will find links to our social media in the show notes or at hypercastpodcom. We want to feature those tips in future episodes. We hope you found today's discussion helpful. Remember, if you're looking for more personalized help with ADHD, we offer coaching services to guide you on your journey. Check out our websites for more details and to book a free consultation. Brianna's website is understandingadhdca. Melissa's website is likemindcoachingcom.
Brianna:Join us next week when we talk about ADHD and creativity. If that's it, we can thank them and say bye-bye.
Melissa:Thank you bye-bye. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Hypercast. If that's it, we can thank them and say bye-bye. Thank you is here for you.
Brianna:Remember you're not alone in your ADHD journey. Together, we can navigate the highs and lows with courage and compassion. So until next time, take care stay curious and keep embracing your unique neurodiversity. Catch you on the next episode of Hypercast you.
