ADHD & Grief: Navigating Loss With ADHD

How does ADHD intensify the experience of grief, and what unique challenges do those with ADHD face in processing loss? Join us on Hypercast for an eye-opening discussion as we uncover the intricate ways in which ADHD can magnify the physical and emotional symptoms of grief. From difficulty focusing to heightened restlessness and depressive symptoms, we delve into the realities of life transitions like divorce, job loss, and the loss of a loved one.

Shattering the myths of the five stages of grief, this episode explains why acceptance isn't a necessary destination and how memories continue to shape our relationships with those we've lost. It offers an in-depth look at how neurodivergent individuals navigate the balance between loss and restoration.

*** This episode is dedicated to John Snider***

Grief Resources:
CHADD: https://chadd.org/adhd-and-covid-19-toolkit/adhd-grief-and-loss-during-pandemic/

The Mini ADHD Coach: https://www.theminiadhdcoach.com/living-with-adhd/adhd-and-grief

Edge Foundation: https://edgefoundation.org/handling-grief-and-loss-when-you-have-adhd/

Self Love Rainbow: https://www.selfloverainbow.com/dual-process-model-of-coping-with-bereavement/

Melissa's Contact:
Email: melissa@likemindcoaching.com
www.likemindcoaching.com

Brianna's Contact:
Email: info@understandingadhd.ca
www.understandingADHD.ca

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Chapters

• 0:00 ADHD and Grief
• 6:46 Understanding Grief and ADHD Interactions
• 20:14 Processing Loss and Grief With ADHD
• 26:32 Navigating Grief and Community Support

Transcript

Melissa: 0:00

Hi, there you're listening to Hypercast, an ADHD podcast. I'm Melissa, an ADHD coach and advocate.

Brianna: 0:08

Hi, I'm Brianna, an ADHD coach and soon-to-be therapist. We are here to explore all things ADHD from unexpected challenges to unique strengths.

Melissa: 0:16

Join us as we share insights and strategies that empower you to live your best ADHD life.

Brianna: 0:21

Ready? Let's dive into today's episode.

Melissa: 0:30

Hi guys, Welcome back to Hypercast.

Brianna: 0:33

Wow, that's a lot of enthusiasm for today's episode which is Today's episode is on ADHD and grief.

Brianna: 0:39

It's an important topic to discuss, because loss is unavoidable in life. You can't escape it, no matter how hard you try, and ADHD impacts every aspect of our lives, including the way that we process loss and grief, and it's not a fun topic to talk about. We will acknowledge that it's really hard and if this episode is not for you, we totally understand. We have some more positive uppity episodes, but we do try and keep things positive here. So we're going to give you some information about grief in general, how ADHD impacts grief, and then talk about some of our personal experiences with it today.

Melissa: 1:23

Grief comes from loss, and grief is not always just from death. It can come from major life transitions, divorce, the loss of a job. Sometimes you're impacted by something major in your life that shifts your life in a different direction and that can also cause grief.

Brianna: 1:38

Yeah, Loss is not just death we should clarify that and it's also not just divorce. A breakup is a loss. A friendship breakup, which needs to be talked more about, is also a loss. Moving out of your childhood home, changing countries, losing the ability to drive, to speak a language If you move to a country, for example, like I did, where they use manual cars and don't speak English. I had to learn both of those skills learn a new language and learn how to drive manual. So I lost independence for a bit and that was lost and it was hard Changes, and changes in health too, oh God, physical health.

Brianna: 2:18

Yeah, currently dealing with that situation and I have to grieve what I could have otherwise done if I was healthy, and something that we need to discuss is receiving that diagnosis is also a loss. It's a form of grief that you have to go through, especially if you're later diagnosed. But if you're diagnosed later in life, then you have this grieving period. And it's not saying that the ADHD wasn't there, right. It's just saying you had imagined a life without it.

Melissa: 2:49

And now you've received this diagnosis and you have to come to terms with the fact that your life is going to change, looking back and actually seeing the points where, if you would have received the right accommodation or the right support, those pivotal points where your life could have changed and could have changed and could have been different, you have to grieve that possible future what could have been there are different types of loss, which we've discussed.

Brianna: 3:12

There are also different types of grief, and the way that grief impacts your body can vary. Grief can cause trouble focusing. Low attention span sound familiar. You can have this like constant need to move your body, just this restlessness about you. You can distance yourself from your peers, from your interests. It can cause depressive symptoms or even depression that like distancing of what once brought you joy. It can impact your performance at school or work. You can have like brain fog and have difficulty learning new materials. You can have trouble eating, sleeping. It can cause physical symptoms like stomach pain, loss of appetite, exhaustion, sleep disturbances, which are very common for people with ADHD, and then also like impulsivity, like because your executive functioning, your decision making processes, are currently being drowned by grief. They're not working correctly, so you can make a lot of impulsive decisions, a lot of things that could get you into trouble. Does any of this sound familiar.

Melissa: 4:19

It does. Your decision making process could be a little impaired in this moment and these moments of grief, because your brain it has an extra load on it in that moment.

Brianna: 4:28

Okay, grief is disabling to everyone. That is a universal thing. Or the relationship to the person might not be what was expected, so that grieving period is shorter or not as important to go through, or, because of the toxic relationship, it could be a really long grieving period. Grief is disabling. You can't eat, you can't sleep, you can't think, you can't process, you can't function. Taking a shower, getting out of bed, just going about the day-to-day tasks of life are so hard when you are grieving.

Brianna: 5:08

And all of those things that I just listed are the constant, daily things of ADHD.

Brianna: 5:15

So imagine the combination of grief and ADHD and how do you see the impact that grief and loss can have doubly on a person with ADHD? And here's the piece of why this is so important to talk about because there is a certain expectation around grief and mourning and loss where you bring them food, you take care of them for a couple of weeks, then they're expected to get back to work as normal, business as usual, everything's fine, and some people don't step back. And then there's this social stigma around oh, it's been a year, why are you still grieving, why are you still like this? And then there are people who you know return to normal work life and they seem to be okay. And then anniversaries hit, or every once in a while it comes up and they have to take a day, or it's normal and it's viewed as normal in society, but with adhd it might take a little bit more time. It might be doubly as impactful because you're already dealing with these things and now there's more of them.

Brianna: 6:22

And you don't you just completely lose grip on reality and you have to somehow be okay? In three weeks I receive extra time on my exams. You don't think that I'm going to need extra time to process this huge emotional disturbance when I'm already emotionally dysregulated and that societal expectation and this lack of awareness and knowledge around it? Really because, for example, the five stages of grief, bull.

Melissa: 6:52

Okay, so we've all been told, even by our therapist, definitely by tv and movies counselors, yes that there are five stages of grief.

Brianna: 7:01

You don't want to you want to know what the five stages of grief are for. What are they for If you yourself are dying?

Melissa: 7:07

Okay, explain, please explain that to me.

Brianna: 7:10

The original theory of the five stages of grief is if you have received a terminal diagnosis, so say cancer, for example, you go through those five stages of grief, not in order that you flip-flop through them, and acceptance is the last one, because you have to accept that you're dying. If you are the loved one of that person, you never have to accept their death, because the relationship, the memories continue after death and it's not like you have to be like, oh my God, they're still alive, they didn't die, no, no, no, they died. It's awful and it's sad and it's horrible, but you never had to accept that your life was going to be over or anything like that. That acceptance piece is really harmful for those who are left behind.

Melissa: 7:55

Because saying this is the end that's cutting off the relationship, even though relationship can continue through memories and things they've taught you Exactly Interesting.

Brianna: 8:09

So that's why the dual process model of grief exists, and it's this fluctuation between the loss, the grief, the thinking about your loved one, the missing your old life, missing them, focusing on the before, and the restoration, which is figuring out how to life with the whole, without this person, without whatever is lost, how to continue creating new life roles, figuring out new traditions, new experiences, new things to do, forming new relationships, adjusting, and you flip-flop between those two processes and you're supposed to. A neurotypical person will flip-flop a little bit more slowly than a person with ADHD, obviously because our brains are just faster. That's the way we process things. So we're going to flip-flop really quickly between I'm devastated their loss and I have everything figured out, I know how I'm going to move forward, and there are a lot of processes that play into that, like time, blindness, object permanence, things like that.

Brianna: 9:11

So if you can forget people that aren't dead, you can absolutely forget people when they can no longer reach out to you. Yeah Right. And then you get hit with this memory. Something triggered you and now you're in that loss all over again. You're triggered, you're grieving and you were fine three or five or seven years later and all of a sudden it hits you again right. And it's not as typical for a neurotypical person to be hit that because they have the memories that stay present in their working memory, in their brains, and they move forward whereas we fluctuate still.

Melissa: 9:49

Interesting. Is there a way to combat that? Why would you want to combat it? It's healthy. I don't know if I'm relating it to maybe being re-traumatized by someone passing.

Brianna: 9:59

Let me explain a little bit differently. Or better is that the way that you feel the loss and the grief does change and I'm not sure I can explain that. So it's not like you're completely incapacitated. Five years, seven years down the road, you're hit with the emotions, which is what I was trying to describe. The emotions hit you fresh and it's really hard to be emotionally dysregulated when the support systems have been withdrawn because time has passed, whereas for us time hasn't passed and we get hit with it. But we're better able, through going through this process of going back and forth, we're better able to find that balance at homeostasis and continue on with that restoration orientation path of I'm so grateful that this memory came to me. Maybe, instead of crying about it now I'm laughing about it or I'm thinking about it. I'm just grateful that it's there and I can continue to process and move forward Right. So it's definitely difficult, it's definitely something that is unique to ADHD, autism, people with memory issues, but it's not unhealthy, it's the way it's supposed to work.

Melissa: 11:11

That's really interesting.

Brianna: 11:12

Yeah, I think I've talked too much. Let me ask you some questions about is there anything that needs to be better explained or anything that you've has come up for you while I've been explaining this?

Melissa: 11:24

I think it's hard in these moments. Sorry, I'm processing, I'm stimming, I'm like let me play with my hair while I process this.

Brianna: 11:32

All the time to process that you need. That's another grief tip. It's that there is no timeline. There's no I have to be better by this certain point. That is an unreasonable expectation for anyone, but especially someone with ADHD.

Melissa: 11:47

Something that was coming up is that I've definitely experienced grief on multiple levels different times in my life and I've reacted different ways during each of these moments that I've encountered grief. I don't think that's wrong. I don't really know the reason why, and maybe that's just my relationship with somebody, or what is needed of me in the moment, or even what my own personal needs are at that time, but I'm still the same person. It's just I reacted differently at pretty much every instance that I feel like I've experienced grief in my life.

Brianna: 12:22

Different loss causes different reactions and that's normal and it's healthy and it's the way it should be, even if it's the same loss. Say, two people died, those are two different people. Even if they both died of colon cancer, those are still two different people that you had two different relationships with and the way that you will grieve that loss differs based on your attachment to that person, your relationship to the person, how important they were in your life. If you had a healthy relationship, if you had a toxic relationship, if there is something that is complicating the grief, ie a toxic relationship if you had a toxic relationship, if there is something that is complicating the grief, ie a toxic relationship you have to talk to them in 10 years. That added level of complexity which adds to the complexity of the grief.

Melissa: 13:08

I had a dog for 16 years like the best. Sometimes you'll have a dog that's like the dog, like it changes all things. It's the best dog in the entire world and I had one of them. He just passed away about a year ago at 16. And I felt so deeply about that, more so than I would about like my grandmother's sister passing away, because that relationship was really close to me. There were so many feels for weeks like I would just see something of his and I'd cry and I'm not a crier, it's especially difficult with disenfranchised grief like that, and what I mean by disenfranchised, I will explain is there is grief that you are expected to grieve.

Brianna: 13:48

So the loss of a husband is somehow more socially acceptable to grieve than the loss of a friend. The loss of a parent or a child is more socially acceptable than the loss of a friend. The loss of a parent or a child is more socially acceptable than the loss of a distant aunt or a distant uncle. Right and partially it's due to the closeness of the relationship and that's just. You're expected to experience more grief as a result. But also there's more supports around it, for example, the loss of a child versus a miscarriage. There is support for the loss of a child oh, I can't imagine losing a child. That must be the hardest thing a mother will ever experience and it is horrible, gut wrenching, the worst thing you can experience and there's support for it. If you have a miscarriage you're still feeling a lot of those feelings, but maybe there's not as much support and there's no bereavement time for that. There's no disability for that. There's no social support or people bringing food, because it's so private and so personal. Have you seen the movie Inside Out? Absolutely Okay, it is a fantastic movie.

Brianna: 14:49

One of the key point takeaways is that you have to experience sadness. You can't shove it in a little box, because visually being sad brings support. When Riley, the main character, is sad, her parents hug her. She receives that support that she needs. If you are visually able to be sad, to express sadness, it's socially acceptable. You're allowed to say, hey, I'm sad, they're going to come and support you. And if you're not allowed to say hey, I'm sad about this. Or if someone dismisses it like, oh, it's just a dog or oh, it wasn't a real baby yet, yeah, now your grief has been tarnished. Now you're not receiving that support, how do you react to that?

Melissa: 15:29

Yeah, I think it's also. This is also making me think about how we grieve, that we all may grieve in different ways or, like you were saying, according to the relationship, like the feelings may come in different ways, and I don't know that any of it's wrong. I'm not a big crier and I don't sit and sob, but at the same time sometimes I have a hard time understanding when someone, like, needs to go to a grave site and sob every year, and I don't personally identify with that. I don't think it's wrong, it's just not how I specifically am comfortable grieving.

Brianna: 16:00

And if it makes you uncomfortable, then if you aren't aware and aren't capable of knowing that about yourself, you might then shame or judge or ostracize that person who feels the need to go and weep over the memory which, if it is impacting her daily living and you can't stop weeping, then that would be a cause for concern and maybe you haven't moved on to the restoration orientation of the process and you're stuck in the law. That's something that would need to be addressed. But if it's a memorial event or something that isn't impacting your daily life, then absolutely healthy would do whatever it is that you need to do, yeah, to feel your emotions and to take that space to process that you need and I know culturally things can be different too.

Melissa: 16:41

My godmother is Ethiopian and she's like in Ethiopia we cry and we scream and we yell and we just we get the emotions out of our body and we push it out into the world. And I thought it was such a beautiful way of her explaining how that culture grieves, because I think it's beautiful to know that people do grieve in different ways.

Brianna: 17:02

Absolutely yeah, the the wailing women is one of the most amazing things that I've come across as well. Very common in a lot of cultures indigenous cultures, some African cultures, some South American cultures where they have a designated wailer, where they have a designated wailer, someone who it is their job to cry, to express emotion, to be loud, to be visual, to be seen grieving, which allows people who might be more uncomfortable sharing that grief. I know there's a lot of machismo Men might be uncomfortable crying If you have a designated person who is taking that attention, who is saying it is OK to grieve. This is sad. Cry, wail, whatever you need to do, it opens the door for other people who might be a little bit more shy, a little bit more reserved, to also feel and to have that reflected back to them.

Melissa: 18:07

It makes it real, like I said with the Inside Out example. It allows you to process, to receive support, to receive help, to receive the validation that this is sad, I'm allowed to be sad. Just having that is so important. It's really beautiful because it's also showing the importance of the person who has passed and honoring them by this public display, by this public display.

Brianna: 18:17

I mean, on the flip side, the Celtic tradition is to have a party right To have a wake, to have drinks and party all night long, and it's to honor the memory of them also. So it's not just this you have to wail, you have to weep, you have to be sad. It could also be expressing joy and expressing obviously they still cry there but to honor that person, the way that they lived, or through memory, through celebration of life, whatever it is. There's different cultural traditions and things and if you're culturally displaced it can be even harder to have that kind of accessibility.

Melissa: 18:55

Being able to remember someone and all the wonderful things they've brought into your life. If we are remembering the departed and we're discussing their memories, discussing those memories helps cement those memories so that we can remember them in the future. Because you mentioned earlier in the episode that, as people with ADHD, that we forget, that, as people with ADHD, that we forget but can taking the time to actually record those memories, to extract them but help us remember in the future.

Brianna: 19:26

It's such a great question and such a great point. Yeah, for people with ADHD, the memory piece of it is particularly difficult because one it's impacted by grief, like memory formation can be impacted by grief, and then memory recall as well, which is doubly interesting. Yeah, so what you're talking about is memorialists. They're the ones who, like, keep scrapbooks and photos and memories and things. There's the theory I'm talking about. There's five of them. Activist would be one of them, so someone who's mothers against drunk driving, someone who's trying to make meaning from that. And then seekers are another one. They're like the eat, pray, love kind of people.

Brianna: 20:05

There's different ways of doing it, for sure, but it's interesting your point about the ADHD, because, yeah, I think it would help. But also, if that's not your style, then that won't feel natural. So I wouldn't force anyone to to keep a scrapbook or to have pictures up if that is triggering, something that is preventing you from living Right, like, especially if it was a toxic relationship or something like. It is something that brings you joy and you're able to process that better through the memories and having those triggers around. So you're not as triggered by accident because you exposed yourself to something like building a tolerance.

Melissa: 20:49

I don't know if you necessarily need pictures or to have things around to remember constantly, but if you have a Word document or a journal, you can even bullet point memories of someone to go back to. If you feel like you miss them and would like to remember, you can have a place. When they do come up, you can write them down, the sweet things that you'd like to keep with you, so you can savor those moments.

Brianna: 21:12

That's actually something that I have considered a lot in my life. Slightly off topic, but it is a form of loss, so I'll talk about it today. I have family members with dementia who it's a loss because they're not dead yet, but they're losing their memory and I'm losing the person they were in my life and that connection as they start to no longer fill that role and be further down that dementia journey. And I, with my ADHD, already have really bad memory. But also, dementia is genetic.

Brianna: 21:48

Adhd has a high connection with dementia comorbidity I think it's 35%, don't quote me on that like comorbidity. And so with my ADHD, with it in my family history, with that connection, I've had to think a lot about how I'm going to remember as I'm losing. And, yeah, pictures, thoughts, journaling, writing down the stories of my family members, writing down my own stories, keeping those pictures and organizing them, which is a struggle for me in my PhD so I can look at them without feeling overwhelmed. It's really important. And also this is another form of disenfranchised grief I should mention it's pre-grieving. It's doing a lot of the grief work before the loss the final loss has occurred, which can help with the restoration, orientation process of things. Yeah, it's definitely something I've thought about.

Melissa: 22:45

Thank you for sharing that. I know that wasn't easy to share.

Brianna: 22:48

I think it's important because, as we've said at the beginning of the episode, it's not just death that is lost. And talking about those other disenfranchised forms of loss, like being late diagnosed, like miscarriages, like living with someone with dementia, like even the relationship things we mentioned at the top of the show and friendship, it's all important and it all impacts us and it's not given the space it deserves this topic isn't heavy at all.

Brianna: 23:14

Very heavy. But here's another reason why it's so important Because loss is isolating and being able to share and talk about this and explain and have some knowledge because it you how are you going to know that it's okay to talk about these secondary kinds of loss? To explain secondary loss, there's normally a main or primary loss and then there's a whole bunch of other things that come along with it. If you lose a person, then you're losing whatever role they played in your life. You're losing that connection. You're losing all the things and activities that you did with each other.

Melissa: 24:01

The support yeah.

Brianna: 24:03

Yeah, and, if you like, move to a new place. You're losing familiarity, you're losing habit and routine. You're losing easy friendships. You might still have those friendships, but they've changed Right. It's really big blow to your confidence. You are struggling and you're like why am I struggling? Why is everything harder? I thought I was through this, I thought I'd process this. You don't get through grief by the way you live with grief, it just becomes manageable. But that's my point. If you don't know, you don't have these conversations, if you're isolated by your loss, then how are you supposed to get help?

Melissa: 24:43

How do we get help? How do we get help? I feel like help can come in multiple ways. So help can come through personal relationships, such as friends and family gathering together and commiserating together. It also can come in a professional form, which you are definitely well acquainted with.

Brianna: 25:00

Yeah, yeah, there are therapists out there. You obviously want to get one that knows about ADHD and knows that the five stages of grief are not for Not for the living.

Brianna: 25:14

Not for the living, that's a great way of putting it. It's not for the living, it's for the dying. Just someone who can listen and support you though, because I know not everyone has access to those kind of resources. So if you can't find that or that's not available to you, friends, community groups, even some Facebook groups, just having people who get it is really helpful. And then, specifically, adhd groups as well. It's an understanding that is built in with having ADHD. There is just you're going to be supported, absolutely. I don't know how to segue into this, but would you like to share your?

Melissa: 25:47

experience. A big reason why this topic was something we decided to explore right now is because two weeks ago I lost my father-in-law. He was not an in-law to me, he was a father figure to me and he was also a friend to me and it was a blow. It's a blow to not just me, but my entire family and actually his entire community. He was an amazing civil servant. He was so adamant about the right to vote. He was appointed as the chair of the election board in his city. His whole life was nothing but serving. I just heard the city council meeting from this last week. The entire council was nearly in tears. It feels like a huge, amazing loss. But I'm also overwhelmed by the amount of love a community can give to a person and also how much impact one person can have.

Brianna: 26:40

But how has that been helpful to you? Like having, yes, the community support around you, but just that awareness of how many lives he has touched.

Melissa: 26:50

I think it's important because it's reminding me of how wonderful he was as a person and also what I feel like he's given to me and my husband and other members of our family, like things he's taught us. He's helped shape me as a person and I feel like I'm taking part of that with me and I've become a better person. And I feel like I'm taking part of that with me and I've become a better person. And I don't know if I'm answering your question correctly, but I'm realizing that it's not just me. He's impacted all these people. Seeing that community outpouring it's a confirmation of how amazing this person was. I only wish I can walk in their footsteps and hope that the lessons I've learned I can continue on.

Melissa: 27:28

And maybe I don't know, but I know I'm rambling. That's probably part of this whole grief thing too. Our brains swirl and it's confusing and it's overwhelming. But I think that's part of why I was asking about memorializing. My mother-in-law wants to have a celebration of life. We asked who wants to come and share their memories. I'm hoping that hearing other people's memories will help me remember myself and maybe I can take a moment to write those things down of how we shared moments together and how they impacted me and how I think I'm a better person because of it. I know I'm rambling. Anyway, do you have questions?

Brianna: 28:04

First of all, thank you for sharing, and he sounds like an amazing person and I don't think that it's woo to want to follow in his footsteps, because he sounds like he was really important in your life, really important in your husband's life and really important to the community, and that's something we should all aspire to do to touch the lives of the people around us. That's, I think, one of the things that helped me cope with loss as well is seeing the people who cared and having that be available, and it just makes it feel less meaningless.

Melissa: 28:42

That makes a lot of sense. One thing I think I wanted to mention is that I feel like I have reacted differently in times of loss, and in this moment I'm rising to the occasion to help be a person of strength in this moment, and I don't know if that's part of my own grief process, but I think my ADHD actually may be even helping me.

Brianna: 29:04

That is the ADHD connection right there. Adhd people, adhd brains, are amazing in a crisis, because this has happened so recently. You, while the neurotypicals in your life have been dealing with the emotions of this, have had the ability to see the bigger picture, to set the emotions aside for now which is something you're going to have to deal with later, unfortunately which is that delayed processing, which is why it takes ADHD people longer to grieve and you're able to switch directly into that restoration orientation manage things for the people in your life. You are providing structure and strength and a safe place for people. They're going through their emotions and then it's going to switch and you're going to need to go through your emotions and they're going to be able to support you and be the strength and the structure, the just keeping you alive type of thing. There always has to be one and it tends to be then her divertive. People do really well in a crisis.

Melissa: 29:59

But isn't that actually really beautiful? Because we all have needs and someone needs to pick up right now. And if my brain is great in a crisis and an emergency and I can help, then maybe it's a handoff. It's like a relay race, I don't know, but it's a handoff and when I need support, when they're ready, they'll be able to support me. That actually is a really wonderful, healthy form of relationship and helping each other through grief and loss relationship and helping each other through grief and loss.

Brianna: 30:29

Absolutely, and this is why the community aspect you were talking about is so important of having people around you who can support you when you need it and you can support them when they need it.

Melissa: 30:35

Yeah, you mentioned at the top of the show that the brain reacts in funny ways. You have memory problems, you have executive functioning problems and my husband went to the grocery store and he was like I was lost, I forgot things, I was confused and I realized that this is something you deal with all the time. I am so sorry. It was the first time he's ever had to deal with his executive functioning just not functioning.

Brianna: 31:02

Yeah, it's a great way to build empathy, number one.

Brianna: 31:05

But also what an amazing realization that your husband had is oh, like you deal with this all the time and thank you so much for stepping up in this moment, because I finally understand what you're going through. But also I'm dealing with it and the loss right now and I need help. I don't know how to navigate this. I haven't been doing this my whole life, like you have, so you can step up help. I don't know how to navigate this. I haven't been doing this my whole life, like you have, so you can step up. And I mentioned earlier as well, loss is isolating and you have that community around you, so you're not being isolated by your loss, that you're able to support, to have that support, to be that support.

Melissa: 31:39

If we feel like we're isolated in a time of grief, how do?

Brianna: 31:44

we reach out? Great question. It's hard. It's really hard because if you are in that restoration process, you're not going to think that you need it Again. If there's no awareness, no understanding, no conversation about this, if you don't know that this is happening, you're in that restoration thing. You're like, oh, I'm fine, I'm fine, I don't need help, I'm good. And then it hits you and now you're not fine and you don't know how to reach out and you can't because you're dealing with executive functioning and processing and physical symptoms. You just can't. You cannot function as a person. And you were fine during that time period, that window of support where people are bringing food or whatever the cultural tradition is. A couple of weeks later, when that support has gone, now you need help. How do you get it? How do you access it? What do you do? And if you don't know and you don't prepare for that, it's really hard and I don't know if I have a bunch of solutions.

Melissa: 32:38

I was in a position where I was completely just overwhelmed later with the emotions and I couldn't get out of it. I couldn't get past it. And when I wasn't telling anyone, I was further isolating myself Because the social expectation was that you would be fine.

Brianna: 32:58

You had already demonstrated that you were fine. The social support had gone away and now, when you needed it, it wasn't there and you couldn't ask.

Melissa: 33:06

You didn't feel safe to ask because there was no one offering, and it took me reaching out and actually just saying it. I'm having trouble, I'm struggling, and it actually took a lot for me to say that because, yeah, I was expected to be done with that already. And as soon as I said it though, I said it to someone who loves me they said I'm going to get you connected with someone who can help you and help me get reconnected with the therapist. That was very important. It was something I needed, and even if it was just giving me a phone number, like it was, this is a direction to go. It was like a guiding light, guiding me to a better place the solution.

Brianna: 33:47

Because when you're we all know with ADHD, sometimes that's just impossible. It's really hard to make decisions, to navigate things, to make your own appointments, to even know what direction to go in, and grief mimics that doubles it if you have ADHD. So reaching out and having them find the resources is the solution. It's the only thing you can do because you can't do it yourself. You, physically, are incapable, your brain is broken, it is grieving, it is suffering and it needs help. And so if you can reach out to someone and be like I need help, and then they provide the path, that's what needs to happen.

Melissa: 34:26

Okay, this was a really enlightening episode. I think it's something, even though it's hard to talk about, it's something we all need to talk about, because it's something we all deal with, every single one of us absolutely.

Brianna: 34:38

You cannot avoid loss. It is coming for you in any way, shape or form and it's a reality and it needs to be handled in advance, especially if you have ADHD, because you need to create the structures and the support for our delayed, for our differences, for our whatever is going on. That's why I was so passionate about talking about this topic, because it's already secret, it's already hushed in society. Adhd in Greece. I've never heard anyone talk about.

Melissa: 35:10

We're talking about it right now.

Brianna: 35:11

Yeah, and hopefully this episode helps someone who needs it and I hope that whatever loss anyone has gone through you're to be okay. That's what I can tell you.

Melissa: 35:23

And if you're struggling and you don't know which direction to go, take a deep breath and ask someone you care about to help you. Okay, you can do that. You can ask for help. Okay, brianna. So we talked about at the top of the show how grief is difficult for everybody. We talked about what else did we talk?

Brianna: 35:45

about. Would you like me to do the summary? Would you like me to do this? I love this. Summaries. I'll absolutely.

Brianna: 35:52

Today's episode about grief and adhd.

Brianna: 35:53

We talked about all of grief what it looks like and how it is incredibly similar to adhd symptoms, and then how it doubly impacts people with adhd.

Brianna: 36:04

Grief causes trouble focusing, fidgeting, trouble with school or work, learning, trouble eating, sleeping, physical symptoms, things like that. But then with the ADHD component, you've got the unpredictable emotions because of the emotion dysregulation misdirected, hyper-focus, where you're focusing on something that might not be appropriate at the moment or you're trying to distract yourself, or something like that. It can become quite intense and then being isolated by loss, which is hard for everyone. But if you and you really need that support and it delayed or not socially acceptable, how important that is to have. And then we also talked a little bit about our personal experiences with grief and with loss and how we felt supported through that, how we navigated that and some interesting insights that came as a result. Thanks, very heavy episode. We have shone a light on this important topic and maybe helped someone out there learn a little bit more and be a little bit more supported as they're going through this journey, so thank you so much for joining us.

Melissa: 37:18

If you've gotten this far, I know it may have been a difficult episode to get through, but reach out for help. It's okay and you'll be surprised who's willing to help? Yeah.

Brianna: 37:30

Dealing with loss and grief can be quite difficult. So if you do need help, we do have resources in the show notes. Chad is an organization that specifically works with people with ADHD and they have resources at the bottom of the link that I've shared Bereavement, grief and loss counseling Support Group, mostly based in the USA. We are both ADHD coaches. In this instance, you might need something that is beyond a coach, so definitely seeking the help of a therapist if that's something that you need. If you need immediate support, please call Emergency Services In your country. I know the numbers are different in different countries.

Melissa: 38:10

In the United States that would be 911. In the US and Canada, that's 911.

Brianna: 38:15

From the UK, that's 999. In Italy, it's 118. It's different in different countries. Please reach out, please seek support. You do not have to do this alone. As we said throughout the show, grief is isolating Community. Seek support. You do not have to do this alone.

Melissa: 38:31

As we said throughout the show, grief is isolating. Community is important. Reach out if you need help. Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate you sticking it out through this episode. It was a If you've enjoyed today's episode and want to stay connected.

Brianna: 38:47

be sure to rate and subscribe, and check out the show notes for links to our social media and websites, whether you're seeking practical tips, heartfelt stories or just a sense of community.

Melissa: 38:57

Hypercast is here for you.

Brianna: 38:59

Remember you're not alone in your ADHD journey. Together, we can navigate the highs and lows with courage and compassion.

Melissa: 39:05

So until next time, take care, stay curious and keep embracing your unique neurodiversity.

Brianna: 39:11

Catch you on the next episode of Hypercast.