What Men Don’t Know (and What Women Need to Hear) About Women with ADHD

🎙️ Welcome to Hypercast: An ADHD Podcast 🎙️

In this episode of Hypercast: An ADHD Podcast/ ADHD in A Hurry,  hosts Melissa and Brianna from Hypercast join Dustin Horvath from ADHD in A Hurry, to uncover the lesser-known realities of ADHD in women. From the challenges of misdiagnosis to the impact of hormones, they share personal stories and offer eye-opening insights. Whether you're a man trying to understand ADHD in women, or a woman looking for deeper understanding, this episode provides practical advice and powerful takeaways. Learn what men don’t know—and women need to hear—about ADHD.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview

00:18 Early ADHD Diagnoses and School Experiences

02:31 Challenges and Misconceptions in ADHD Treatment

11:54 Understanding Privilege and ADHD

12:53 Hormones and Their Impact on ADHD

17:37 Self-Acceptance and Mental Health

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🌟 Brianna’s ADHD Resources: www.understandingadhd.ca

✨ Dustin Horvath’s Information
This episode features Dustin Horvath, an ADHD Education expert and Host of ADHD in A Hurry.
🌐 Find more about Dustin here: www.pch-consulting.com
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Melissa's Contact:
Email: melissa@likemindcoaching.com
www.likemindcoaching.com

Brianna's Contact:
Email: info@understandingadhd.ca
www.understandingADHD.ca

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Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating ADHD
• 9:25 Understanding Gender and Hormones in ADHD

Transcript

Melissa: 0:00

Hi, there you're listening to Hypercast, an ADHD podcast. I'm Melissa, an ADHD coach and advocate.

Brianna: 0:08

Hi, I'm Brianna an ADHD coach and soon-to-be therapist. We are here to explore all things ADHD from unexpected challenges to unique strengths.

Melissa: 0:16

Join us as we share insights and strategies that empower you to live your best ADHD life.

Brianna: 0:21

Ready? Let's dive into today's episode.

Melissa: 0:28

Not that you really need to know this, men, but maybe you do. Hey everyone, welcome back to Hypercast. Recently, brianna and I sat down with Dustin Horvath, the host of ADHD, in a Hurry. We had an awesome discussion about what it's like to be a woman with ADHD. Hope you enjoy. Bye.

Dustin: 0:45

You alluded to school experiences. Brianna. You had mentioned first through third grade For both of you. What age were you when you were identified formally as having ADHD?

Melissa: 0:57

Eight.

Dustin: 0:58

Eight.

Melissa: 0:58

Mine's a little complicated, I was first technically diagnosed as hyperactive when I was three and a half.

Dustin: 1:04

Okay.

Melissa: 1:05

And it was the early 80s. I was then officially diagnosed as hyperactive when I was three and a half. Okay, and it was the early 80s. I was then officially diagnosed at the age of 15, but that was after I actually had a traumatic brain injury.

Brianna: 1:13

I was born in the 90s, melissa was born in the 80s Very rare for both of us to even be considered to have an ADHD diagnosis. The only reason both of us were identified was due to that hyperactive piece. People believe that it either doesn't exist in adulthood or it's only for male children. And we were female children, so we were the odd ones out. If we hadn't had that disruptive behavior piece, we would have been left to just about now, where all of the women are being diagnosed with ADHD because they had the inattentive presentation or the internal hyperactivity that was dismissed as daydreaming or chatterbox and not really disruptive and the statistics on that are pretty low.

Melissa: 1:53

There's not even a real concrete number. But what? 10 to 20% of women are hyperactive? Presentation of ADHD.

Brianna: 2:01

Do you have a more concrete number on that, Brianna? The thing about the types and the presentations is that it's ever-changing. Like just recently it shifted from type, which was definitive, to presentation On that sliding spectrum. It changes from day to day. So there are people who have identified themselves as inattentive, who can have very hyperactive days because it's that sliding scale. Any number I throw out here right now would be inaccurate because it's that sliding scale.

Dustin: 2:26

Any number I throw out here right now would be inaccurate. It's interesting that you mentioned that I am inattentive primarily, and over time I was like there is a hyperactive component, even if I'm not running around and making all these noises and being disruptive, but my mind is constantly moving so quickly or that, like you said, that internalized feeling of let's just get everything done, let's just move all the time. Some days it's really hard to manage and other days it seems more natural or easier to manage. And for me at least, having two little kids, sometimes their hyperactiveness plays into mine and we just have a great time with it because it just feels normal, and other times it's almost counterintuitive.

Dustin: 3:06

Melissa, you had mentioned being young in the 80s and the misperceptions of ADHD or, in your case, hyperactivity. So for you, when you were starting to go into kindergarten, into the elementary grades, what was it like for you as a student, especially as a girl in elementary school, with this hyperactivity? How did you manage it? How did your parents or teachers react to you and did you feel at all like your needs were being met?

Melissa: 3:32

I don't know if I always felt like my needs were being met. Even to this day. I'm like this constant flow of questions. I always wanted to explore the world and I think people got tired of that. I was probably the loudest kid in the room, even though I was the smallest. A lot of people just thought I was a lot. Maybe I was cute, but I was a lot and you can only take a lot for so long before it becomes overwhelming and annoying and then that cute gets not cute very quickly. I don't know if that answers your question.

Dustin: 3:56

Oh, it absolutely does. I can empathize with the. You're cute, but that's enough for now. Yeah, but then it becomes I have all this energy or curiosity and I can't turn it off.

Brianna: 4:07

So what do I do now with myself? Melissa and I have a very different background and upbringing. Maybe the decade, but also, just like the family unit, the 90s was the last time where there was like this, such intense stigma. There is still stigma today. I don't want to dismiss the discrimination, the stigma that we still face, but it was a very interesting transition because I went from a period of this doesn't exist. You're a novelty, like maybe you were born a boy type of thing. How could you possibly have ADHD? It's probably just like bipolar or anxiety, but they wouldn't have diagnosed that young.

Brianna: 4:40

And then in high school it finally shifted to more of an understanding of what it was. As I was going through school I could see the changes, but I didn't understand what was happening until I look back on it Because, like I said, I was diagnosed at eight and from grades one through three I was a problem. I was sent to a disciplinary program at one point, so I was disruptive and I was also gifted. I wasn't being challenged in the classes and they didn't believe me when I said I'd read Harry Potter in grade three, so they just thought I was causing problems. Even though all my test scores came back. I thought I was cheating because they didn't believe that anything could be wrong with me.

Brianna: 5:17

Then a complete 180 switch. When I went into a school that actually had individual personalized lesson plans, understood what ADHD was. The high school I went to the student population 50% of us had ADHD. There was 14 kids in a class, capped, and every single teacher understood what ADHD was. And there was people with headphones listening to music in class. There was people pacing in the back of the room.

Melissa: 5:40

It was amazing, yeah, for me. Teachers did not know what to do with me and I was getting D's in class. They took me out. They tested me even as young as second grade and got my test results back. I'm testing in the top one to two percentile in both math and English and I'm getting D's and C's and F's. That, to me, just showed that they did not know how to utilize their teaching ability to teach me the way I needed to learn.

Dustin: 6:03

And I'm sure if you raised any concerns you were probably shot down like all right kid enough. I was born in the mid 80s, I was in elementary school in the early 90s and graduated high school in 2004. So, brianna, what you're talking about that subtle shift that was going on between it's just made up and you're a bad kid sit down and shut up. I also remember in the mid 90s a lot of parents talking about Ritalin and drugs and everyone's kid is on Ritalin. These days it's easy to convince parents that there's an epidemic of problems for their kids because every parent inherently gets scared with. Am I doing something wrong? Is what's happening to society?

Brianna: 6:39

Oh, that fear of all. The kids are on Ritalin these days. That's where the Italian belief is still. They're a little bit behind and some people are like, oh, it's a street drug and you like. There was a very small time period where the university students were taking it and, realistically, most of them probably had ADHD or just undiagnosed. If it was working for you, then you have ADHD. If you take it and it doesn't work, then it's not for you.

Melissa: 7:07

Especially at the therapeutic dosage.

Dustin: 7:08

yeah, I find medication fascinating because in my experience, between getting tested, identified and treatment options because there really weren't any for me my parents were always vehemently against medication and I never quite got the explanation why, but I think part of it just was the back of their mind. We don't want to be like all those other bad parents that just have their kid hopped up on speed, more or less yeah. So for me it was a lot of unpacking, breaking down and reflecting Is it me, Is there something wrong with me and how do I fix the situation? Then I got into my thirties and having relationships, especially like my wife and having kids, helped me reprioritize what's even important to me. I am who I am and I'm okay with that.

Dustin: 7:55

Now, with the two of you talking about your experiences in school but not just school, just your typical lives you're both still continuing on that self-journey, but also helping others in the process, obviously with what you do and your podcast. But I wanted to hear from the two of you what masking was like for you, what it is like for you right now, if at all. What have you learned to shed, or is there a purpose behind it that does serve you some good?

Melissa: 8:22

I would have to say, as hyperactive as I was, as expressive as I was, the thing I wasn't letting out were my feelings and my thoughts. I would hold those inside because I thought no one wanted to hear them. I thought that people would think I would sound stupid or, if I had a need and needed to express that, that I was just being weak. I think those are probably the most harmful ways I was masking as a child, and you mentioned the diagnosis, and then, after diagnosis, I think there's another stage in between there's getting diagnosed and there's accepting that you have.

Melissa: 8:56

ADHD. There's a grief process in there. Oh, I could have done this if I had the support here. I could have been this amazing person if I went into this occupation. But for me, once I had gotten to that acceptance piece, I started speaking my mind. I became more confident in who I am, and there are people who have known me the majority of my life do double takes at me when I speak now, because I'm not the person they knew before. I'm a different person. It's not that I'm really different, it's that I'm finally expressing who I am now that I'm unmasking.

Brianna: 9:25

Masking is a safety mechanism. It is how you portray normalcy to the world. So you fit in, you blend in. You're not dealing with the negative comments, the discrimination, the stigma, and it's automatic. It's not something that you can really control until you know about it. And then you have to work really hard to unmask and that's the journey that I just went on over.

Brianna: 9:46

Covid Didn't really see people in person a lot, had a lot of time to just be myself in an environment where I felt safe, and then I had to go back into the world again. I noticed that I was less able to mask because I had spent so much time finally accepting myself. I understood how much energy that had taken from me over the years. The gendered piece of that is boys will be boys, whereas girls are from a much younger age. Their behavior is controlled. Their expectations are different. We mature at a faster rate only because we have to. In society. We are sexualized from an early age.

Brianna: 10:25

There's all these pieces that contributed to the way I was masking and the constant state I was in when I was masking. When I didn't have to do that over COVID, I realized how much energy that had taken from me my entire life and I did not want to go back and I also uncovered some food sensory issues and other sensory things that I had not even acknowledged were a part of my ADHD. I knew they were part of ADHD but I was like that's a symptom, a trait that doesn't apply to me. It absolutely applies to me. I was just not seeing it.

Brianna: 10:57

And I didn't even notice that I was putting myself in situations that was making me really uncomfortable, that by the end of the day I would go into the state of shutdown or overwhelm or overstimulation. So my journey is now trying to find that balance where I can be seen as professional in society without having to mask a lot of my traits. And I really love that headphones are being worn in public now. There is a little bit more acceptance that way. It's nice to see, but there's still a long way to go.

Melissa: 11:28

society doesn't just have a long way to go, but we as humans grow in our self-acceptance. Every day I learn more about myself, how I present and, like Brian was saying, you discover tolerations that you've had or things that you hold inside that you didn't even realize you were holding in or you didn't even realize you were masking. It's the process where we're continuing to learn. And that's important to do.

Dustin: 11:47

Now, on the gendered side of things, if, in terms of society and the constraints that we place on girls, like you had mentioned about, boys will be rough and tumble, that's expected. Girls are to be pristine and organized and put together and that's the expectation of the difference usually between the two. What are some things that would help me, let's say, when it comes to ADHD especially?

Melissa: 12:13

from the experience of a woman with ADHD. There are social things that distinguish men and women when it comes to ADHD. There are medical things, the history of ADHD. We can talk about that, but there is one distinctive difference, and that thing hormones.

Brianna: 12:23

Yeah, this is one of my soapboxes that I love to stand on, so I will try and be as brief as possible. I will get to hormones, Melissa, I just want to start with a cohesive story. One of the questions you asked is what can you know as a man? So the answer to that question is privilege. And with every minority you add on to a disability or to a person, it increases the impact. We are women with ADHD. That's two minorities One is visible, One isn't. People of color, if you're queer. All of those pieces add on to the stigma, add on to the discrimination, make it more difficult to receive a diagnosis to receive, more likely to be victims of domestic assault if we have ADHD. Financial abuse, incarceration, real life situations that happen to all minority groups.

Brianna: 13:18

When you're a woman with ADHD, it's compounded. And back to Melissa's hormone piece yes, the hormone cycle does impact ADHD. The menstrual cycle impacts ADHD and they don't study it. There's a paper that I recently read that said if you take medication, maybe changing the dose as you go through the menstrual cycle would actually be a more effective way of medicating yourself rather than just a straightforward dose, because men's testosterone changes over the day, whereas our hormones change over a month, so the medication that's built for a change through a day doesn't work when we are in our luteal phase, when we have really low estrogen and low estrogen means low dopamine, so our brains are having a bigger problem.

Melissa: 14:01

There are major changes that girls and women go through in their lives. Periods are one of them, if we give birth to a child, pregnancy is another, and then menopause those fluctuation of hormones affect the way medications actually work on our bodies. I will hit my period.

Melissa: 14:14

Not that you really need to know this, men, but maybe you do, and I just get stupid Like I just become stupid because my medication is like half as effective as it is for three other weeks of the month. And imagine if, all of a sudden, as a man, if you're taking medication, your medication is half as effective or you only get half your dose. Your brain would be jarred, your body would be jarred. It's yeah, it's a little intense.

Brianna: 14:39

So you said you have two little girls. Right, they're not at the stage yet. But when I was going through this I was told it was PMS. Like all these emotional mood swings. I didn't understand that it was actually ADHD and probably PMS, but the emotion dysregulation piece and the sudden crying and anger, that's because my dopamine is so low that I can't control that. Being told oh, it's just your period, oh, just push through. When your daughters are going through this, don't just dismiss it as a regular part of being a woman. There are other factors at play and their emotional dysregulation needs to be validated.

Dustin: 15:16

Yeah, I greatly appreciate the honesty One of you had mentioned before. Maybe we should or shouldn't mention this. I think it's going to help somebody. It's helping me because I didn't know those components. Now I need to quiz my wife later about her thoughts about all this. For me, the direct reason to know more it affects me personally. I have my daughters. As I'm thinking more about it in the wider range, there's a lot I don't know. I can be like it's all the same for everybody. We're just making this up at this point or there are layers to what we're experiencing that may or may not be similar, and if I do find myself in conversation either with my girls or with someone in the future, just having a little bit more information than when I started is a great start, and now you've piqued my interest in hormones and ADHD, so I appreciate that.

Melissa: 15:58

I want to mention one thing when it comes to men and Brianna and I have talked about this recently, but when it comes to the helping professions, both therapy and coaching, more women are seeking out those services than men are, because, socially, men are told to suck it up, bury your feelings. Yes, coaching and therapy are considered by many to be a critical component to treating ADHD.

Dustin: 16:22

I started therapy before COVID and that all fell apart. I reconnected with my therapist back in March and he was like what brings you back? I'm like I don't know life ADHD there's just. There's a lot I still have to work through. I never took meds for ADHD. My treatment was a lot of just focus, just sit down and focus. You're going to get it if you just focused, and I know how much that's hurt me and how much of a setback that's been.

Dustin: 16:51

And, melissa, as you'd mentioned about the mourning process of you have ADHD, now what kind of thing For me. It was really reflection on my part in trying to see how does this stuff, what is the interconnection happening here? Like how much of me is ADHD, how much of me is depression, how much of me is just me in some ways? And then trying to find comfort in those different aspects, like if I am particularly low on a certain day and I'm irritated, having a really hard time focusing, but I just feel depressed Having my wife look at me and be like today's, like kind of one of those days I'm like, yeah, she goes, all right, we'll give you some space, we'll work around. But that took years to figure out for both of us. But that's why the affirming part I'm so excited about for my kids, but also for people in the future is you're not weird?

Brianna: 17:41

Doesn't it feel amazing to have that person recognize where you are and then support you as you're going through it, because they know it's temporary or it's just an?

Melissa: 17:54

off day To your point of what percentages of things are you that? Depression is you that? Anxiety is you that ADHD is you that you, that is you, it is all, 100% you.

Dustin: 18:05

Naturally building off this talking point when it comes to self-acceptance between your personal experiences, what would be, let's say, a message that you would share to a young girl but a person either with ADHD, about the power of what self-acceptance can mean for them?

Brianna: 18:20

From the scientific, research-based side, self-acceptance is the first step to being less vulnerable to bullies, having a higher self-esteem, lower suicide rates, but also, on the flip side of that, more success. If you have self-acceptance, then you are willing to believe in yourself and you're more likely to actually achieve your dreams. As a result of the self-acceptance, and spending years and years being told by society how to look, how to behave, how to act, sinks in and it becomes this self-stigma, this self-bullying. And if you can flip that on its head and be like no, actually I love myself, I love my whole self, I don't love just parts of myself, you have a much happier, healthier life.

Melissa: 19:09

I would probably tell a young girl the world can be really mean and it's going to try to put you in your place. It's going to try to tell you who you're supposed to be. The world doesn't know you. The world doesn't care about you. Most of the time, the people who care about you are your family and your loved ones. They're the only opinions that really matter at the end of the day, and the most important opinion is how you feel about yourself. I would ask them what do you love about yourself? Honor those things, bring those things to the table, because that's what makes you uniquely you.

Dustin: 19:37

I love it. I absolutely love it. I don't know about the two of you, the place where I'm at now, in my late 30s, I'm much happier as a person overall, in part because of self-acceptance, in part because of what I've built up and also just chasing after ideas and dreams of things that actually make me happy, like the wants as opposed to what I should be doing. Just making that little change, brianna, like you said, if you can just identify it to yourself and flip it, and what I actually want to do as opposed to what I feel I should be doing, my motivation's different, my willingness to persist through and my resiliency changes, not selfish. It makes me happy and I'm willing to work toward whatever it is I actually want to do.

Melissa: 20:17

And sometimes it's not just want. It's what I need to do, because we need to feel fulfilled in our lives to fill a hole. And so it's not just about want, because sometimes want sounds selfish, but need, need to be fulfilled and to be happy. That is powerful For powerful. For me.

Brianna: 20:31

It's a driver put your own oxygen mask on before helping others. You can't help other people if you don't help yourself first.

Dustin: 20:38

Melissa, and I have said this before and we'll say it again stop shitting on yourself, stop shitting all over yourself yes, yeah, and it's incredible, like how difficult it can be to stop shitting on yourself and even when you recognizing yourself doing it're like but this is just how I always have done it, or this is how people have always spoken to me.

Brianna: 20:57

It's great advice for other people, but for me, I need to be doing all these things that I should be doing. It's the flip again. If other people in your life deserve this, why don't you?

Dustin: 21:07

I know we're running short on time and I greatly appreciate the two of you, and the podcast is called Hypercast, an ADHD podcast. Brianna Melissa, thank you so much for reaching out, melissa for taking the time for doing this, for being my first interview guests. I hope I did okay. You did great. I genuinely appreciate the two of you and your time and the wealth of knowledge that you've shared. Thank you so much.

Melissa: 21:31

My name is Melissa Llewellyn Snyder. I'm an ADHD coach and the founder of Like Mind Coaching and co-host of Hypercast, an ADHD podcast. You can find our podcast at hypercastpodcom and you can find me at likemindcoachingcom. Brianna.

Brianna: 21:49

Hi, I'm Brianna. You can find me at understandingadhdca. I'm an ADHD coach and a therapy intern.

Dustin: 21:55

Soon to be full-fledged therapist, and good luck to you with all that. Thank you so much for sharing and for being a part.

Melissa: 22:02

Thank you so much, Dustin.

Dustin: 22:03

Absolutely Thanks, thank you.

Melissa: 22:06

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Hypercast, if you've enjoyed today's episode and want to stay connected.

Brianna: 22:11

be sure to rate and subscribe, and check out the show notes for links to our social media and websites.

Melissa: 22:16

Whether you're seeking practical tips, heartfelt stories or just a sense of community, hypercast is here for you, remember you're not alone in your ADHD journey.

Brianna: 22:26

Together, we can navigate the highs and lows with courage and compassion.

Melissa: 22:30

So until next time, take care, stay curious and keep embracing your unique neurodiversity. Catch you on the next episode of.

Brianna: 22:37

Hypercast.